Legislature(1995 - 1996)
01/30/1995 08:02 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HRES - 01/30/95
Number 210
HJR 13 - ENDORSING ANWR LEASING
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE NAVARRE, PRIME SPONSOR, HJR 13, stated HJR 13
is something which he and many Alaskans have been interested in for
a very long time. He said at no time in the state's history, and
probably never again, will the state have such a powerful
contingent at the federal level as the state does now and the
opportunity for having this legislation pushed through at the
national level is as good as it has ever been.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE stated the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
(ANWR) holds the highest potential in the United States and the
entire North American continent for commercially producible oil
discovery. He said in terms of potential, it is almost a sure
thing in the oil industry. He noted there was a one in five chance
and that has been upgraded even more.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE pointed out that oil is being imported for
more than half of the oil use in the United States, the trade
deficit continues to grow, domestic oil production is declining and
at the national level, the economy, even though it is improving,
could use the type of boost that the entire 50 states would get
from the type of development that would take place in ANWR, if
there were commercial discoveries available.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE said Alaska has proven in all of its oil
production, the ability to execute production in an environmentally
sound way. He pointed out that oil production on the North Slope,
is state of the art production. He stressed that combined with the
advances in directional drilling and the fact that most of the
exploration wells would be built off ice pads, and ice roads would
be used in the middle of winter, the impact would be very small.
In addition, after the exploration wells delineate the field, there
will be the ability to map out the easiest way to put production
wells in place, assuring the smallest minimal impact to the
environment. He felt a minimal impact will bode well at the
national level, that the development of ANWR can be done right, and
there is the ability to convince the U.S. Congress and the people
of the United States of that fact.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE noted the development of ANWR, according to
several statewide polls, is popular with the vast majority of
Alaskans. He urged committee members to pass HJR 13.
Number 280
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN mentioned that HJR 13 is a bipartisan resolution
and pointed out that both sides of the majorities are in favor of
the resolution. He urged committee members to look at the two maps
contained in committee member folders. He said there is a
consistent misunderstanding in the public arena and some of the
legislative offices as to the size of the area being discussed. He
explained the area being discussed is the 1002 area, which is a
very small amount of the total ANWR. He stated this proposal is to
merely allow the industry to look at what might be there and
reiterated there is a great potential for discovery.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said the biggest question confronting the
industry is the fact there have been several wells drilled in the
perimeter around ANWR that have found hydrocarbons, but not in
economic quantities. He felt the major concern is whether or not
there is enough oil there worth fighting about. He stressed there
is a need to determine whether or not oil is present and if there
is, what is going to be best for both the state and the nation. He
pointed out to committee members that there are a couple of
Congressional white papers in their packets, as well as newspaper
clippings and letters of support.
Number 315
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT made a MOTION to MOVE CSHJR 13 (O&G) out
of committee with individual recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA clarified the area being discussed is
very small.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN responded that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE said the 1002 area was set aside originally
by Congress to enable them to go back and take another look at the
area and determine what the disposition of that land should be.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT WITHDREW his MOTION due to the fact that
several people were present to testify on the resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked if there were any members present
from the Oil and Gas Committee. She wondered why the reference to
porcupine caribou was taken out of the original resolution.
Number 340
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG responded the committee substitute
was a total redraft. The specific references to the porcupine
caribou herds were removed because it was the feeling of the
committee that the elimination of that reference would help the
delegation in Washington move the legislation through Congress. He
reminded everyone HJR 13 is to assist the state's Congressional
delegation.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA felt the President would feel better about
a resolution containing language which recognizes animals important
to the people who live in the area, as well as any Canadians who
might also have an interest.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied there is no denying the importance
of the porcupine caribou herd. He said the intent of the
resolution is to assist the state's Congressional delegation, not
throw up red flags and signals which may generate some negativity.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA clarified the intent is to barrel the
resolution through at all costs and not protect the people or the
caribou herd.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS noted that the chairman of the Oil and
Gas Committee kept in close contact with Alaska's Congressional
delegation and asked for their assistance. He said the committee
felt the last FURTHER RESOLVED would address Representative
Nicholia's concern. He added that Representative MacLean had
indicated that there were safeguards in place with the borough in
regard to the issue.
Number 380
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated the wildlife director of the North
Slope Borough testified at the Oil and Gas Committee hearings and
spoke specifically about the wildlife and other areas of
environmental concerns on the North Slope. He said both the mayor
and the head of the wildlife protection portion of the borough
supported the committee substitute. He pointed out there are three
references within the committee substitute to acting in an
environmentally sound manner in terms of any development and
further exploration. The Oil and Gas Committee felt that was
adequate for the purposes of the resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE NAVARRE noted the Oil and Gas committee also felt
that the value of the porcupine caribou herd had already been
recognized through a number of studies conducted. He felt that
whether or not there was a line in the resolution, the caribou
would be recognized and identified as something very important and
something that will be addressed in any plan to explore or develop
ANWR. He noted that the exploration stage would be done in the
middle of winter, mostly off of ice pads and roads, and the impact
would be very minimal. He explained it would first be determined
whether or not there is commercially developable oil there and then
it would be determined how best to lay out the production plans so
there is minimal impact to what is recognized by Congress and
others as something very important to the people and environment on
the North Slope.
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN added that when the state was looking at
developing Prudhoe Bay, there were legitimate concerns about the
effect of that development on the caribou herds. Now, the success
of that area can be recognized. He said the caribou herd there has
increased sixfold since that development. He noted the state now
has a track record for oil development on the North Slope and felt
the oil companies have been very conscientious about environmental
protection. He stressed some of the environmental technology
developed on the North Slope has been exported to other areas of
the world.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stressed there is always another side to
the story, especially from the people who live there. She has
talked to people living in the area and they have noticed a change.
Number 440
DAVID VAN DEN BERG, REPRESENTATIVE, NORTHERN ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL
CENTER (NAEC), testified via teleconference, and stated NAEC
opposes HJR 13. He said it was refreshing to see the cooperation
between the various legislators on this issue and he understands
the political necessity for elected individuals to support oil
companies, even in the most sensitive areas in Alaska. He stated
he also understands the economic realities facing the state.
MR. VAN DEN BERG wondered why this resolution is being considered,
particularly as currently worded. He felt it was within the power
of the legislature to stipulate things at the outset which would
benefit the state most. He noted that conspicuously absent in the
resolution is the mentioning of a 90/10 royalty split for the
state. He felt a similar resolution directed at ARCO Alaska
regarding (indiscernible) field would yield a better return for the
state.
MR. VAN DEN BERG said while the Coastal Plain is only eight percent
of the total ANWR, that Coastal Plain is the most biologically
productive area in the entire ANWR. The Coastal Plain is the
destination of polar bears, migrating porcupine caribou herd,
waterfowl and (indiscernible) from all over the world. He stressed
the estimated 5,000 -7,000 acre footprint in the resolution is not
a postage stamp but a potential web of industrial facilities which
will crisscross and dissect the Coastal Plain, interrupting animal
(indiscernible) coastal plain.
MR. VAN DEN BERG reminded committee members that in regard to
Prudhoe Bay, while the footprint is far less than the overall
industrial development there, it spans some 580 square miles. He
said if the results from Prudhoe Bay prove anything, it proves
those things about Prudhoe Bay only. The l002 area is a totally
different area because of its proximity to the mountains, because
of the size of the herd that goes there, and because there are musk
oxen populations living there throughout the year. He felt the
lessons from Prudhoe Bay are only guidelines, not a guarantee of
coexistence.
Number 507
MR. VAN DEN BERG said on the one hand the committee is pleading to
open the Coastal Plain, yet on the other hand the committee is
(indiscernible) the export ban. He felt of the two issues, the
export ban has a better chance of being lifted. That would mean if
oil is found and produced on the Coastal Plain, it would be
exported to the highest bidder which would probably be overseas.
He said there is language in the resolution which he recommends be
changed.
Number 530
SARA HANNAN, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY (AEL), said
AEL represents over 9,000 Alaskans. She stated the ANWR was set
aside originally in 1969 partly because of its unique biological
habitat. References to the science which has developed in the past
twenty years has let us know that what was known in 1969 is a very
limited scope of the science available today. She said populations
of caribou are higher in total count and part of that has to do
with the fact that caribou are cyclical animals, their populations
vary, and it is not known if those are 20 year cycles, 50 year
cycles, 100 year cycles or longer. Therefore, extrapolating from
a small window of science and saying that today caribou populations
are much higher than they were 20 years ago does not give the
complete conclusion about the health of the population.
MS. HANNAN stated the ANWR Coastal Plain is a small percentage of
the entire North Coastal Plain of Alaska. Less than eight percent
of the Coastal Plain of the Arctic Coast is set aside from
development of oil. Ninety percent of Alaska's Coastal Plain is
currently open and available for exploration and drilling. She
said a small area, the 1002 area in ANWR, is being debated. The
debate has raged because of the area's uniqueness not because oil
is not present. She stressed the reason the debate is ongoing is
because everyone believes there is oil there. She pointed out that
the most optimistic predictions say there might be 3.2 billion
barrels of recoverable oil. She noted that amount is only one-
third of the energy consumed in the U.S. on an annual basis.
MS. HANNAN felt opening up the ANWR for oil exploration is not
going to change the country's pattern of consumption and it is not
going to stabilize the economy of Alaska. The potential for
biologic disaster is present there. She said perception is a
substantial part of reality. She stated the original version of
HJR 13 acknowledged that the strictest standards in environmental
quality could be protected by technology available today and urged
the use of that technology. The Oil and Gas Committee eliminated
that language. She felt if the committee will not articulate in
the resolution that they are willing to adhere to the strictest
standards and best technology available, why do they think
companies would do it.
MS. HANNAN said the original version of HJR 13 acknowledged that
for centuries the Gwich'in people have been dependent on a
population herd which limited science is available on and
encouraged Congress to protect the Gwich'in people's use of it.
The Oil and Gas Committee eliminated that language. She stated
perception is nine-tenths of reality. By eliminating that
language, the committee is not acknowledging those people have
concerns and their concerns will be listened to. She urged
committee members not to pass the original version of HJR 13 nor
the committee substitute.
Number 651
BEVERLY WARD, REPRESENTATIVE, ARCO ALASKA, stated ARCO Alaska
supports CSHJR 13 (O&G). She said ARCO has been an operator of the
Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk oil fields since their initiation. Their
experience in operating Arctic oil fields has given them a thorough
understanding of the local environmental requirements and has
convinced them that the Coastal Plain can be explored and developed
without causing harm to the health and viability of the Refuge
ecosystem.
MS. WARD pointed out that ARCO's technologies have advanced
significantly since they pioneered the design and operation of oil
development in the Arctic. Using today's technology, ARCO's
presence is compatible with local fish, wildlife, and their
habitats. She said the existence of productive and abundant
populations of birds, caribou, and fish throughout all North Slope
oil fields is evidence of ARCO's ability to be good neighbors with
all current land users.
MS. WARD stressed that ARCO envisions technologies of the future
being even more advanced, further reducing their footprint, while
maximizing the benefits of continued resource development to the
state, the state's citizens, and to the nation. These benefits
range from the creation of exploration and development jobs for
Alaskans, to additional state tax revenues, to manufacturing jobs
in other states and national security issues. She pointed out that
opening ANWR will benefit not only Alaska, but the entire U.S.
ARCO believes it is time to move forward with exploring the most
potentially productive area in Alaska. She said ARCO supports and
encourages the committee to pass CSHJR 13 (O&G).
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said there has been concern expressed about
verbiage in the original resolution being eliminated regarding the
provision of strict standards for protection of land, water, and
wildlife resources. He wondered who ARCO would be accountable to
in regard to making environmental impact studies and the oversight
involved.
TAPE 95-5, SIDE B
Number 000
MS. WARD responded there will not be any less of a standard at ANWR
than there is at Prudhoe Bay. She said ARCO has all of the federal
and state laws to comply with and with all that ARCO has learned,
they expect their imprint in ANWR to be much smaller. She noted
she would be happy to provide a list of all the different laws and
agencies which ARCO would deal with.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN wondered if the specific verbiage is left out,
would there be any less oversight by any agencies.
MS. WARD said leaving the statement out of the resolution does not
change any law or regulation but rather, it is a statement of
intent by this legislature.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted ARCO is being referred to in connection
with ANWR and he reminded everyone that ANWR would be opened to the
industry, not a particular company.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN wondered if the 90 percent mentioned in
the original version is an automatic given.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN said yes. He stated that was part of the
original Alaska Statehood Act. He pointed out, however, the
federal government is now trying to renege, saying they want to do
something less than 90/10. If the Statehood Act is followed, it
would be a 90/10 split in favor of the state not the federal
government.
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN wondered why the 90 percent verbiage was
removed from the original resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded the removal of the reference to
the royalty split was a result of a request from the Congressional
delegation in Washington. Both Congressman Young and the offices
of Senators Murkowski and Stevens indicated that reference to that
language would not be helpful because it is a controversial aspect.
He said there has been discussion among committee members and
testimony received recommending that the 90/10 royalty issue be
taken up under a separate resolution to avoid clouding the issue.
Number 059
GEORGE YASKA, DIRECTOR OF WILDLIFE, TANANA CHIEFS CONFERENCE (TCC),
testified via teleconference and stated TCC is opposed to HJR 13
and the committee substitute. He said the reason for their
opposition is due to their concern about the safety and
productivity of the porcupine caribou herd. He noted there are no
references to the porcupine caribou herd in the committee
substitute. The closest language he could find referring to the
porcupine caribou herd was "environmental safeguards" and he felt
that language was not strong enough.
MR. YASKA told committee members that the porcupine caribou herd
numbers between 150,000 and 180,000 caribou. The caribou calve
within the 1002 area of ANWR and calve principally within the same
area where the oil will probably be found. He pointed out that the
National Biological Service has been conducting research for eight
years and their field report will be completed in June. An early
draft of the report indicates a potential significant negative
impact to the herd. He stressed the people in the area depend
heavily on the porcupine caribou herd. He indicated that is the
reason TCC opposes CSHJR 13 (O&G) and HJR 13.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES clarified the caribou herd on the
North Slope has increased since Prudhoe Bay, especially those
caribou that wander along the pipeline.
MR. YASKA responded that Representative Barnes was referring to the
Central Arctic caribou herd which exists near the Prudhoe Bay
reserve. He explained there are two principal differences between
the porcupine caribou herd and the Central Arctic caribou herd.
First, the Prudhoe Bay field does not lie in the calving area of
the Central Arctic herd and the caribou primarily seen at Prudhoe
Bay are male caribou.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES clarified a very small footprint will be used
for drilling purposes.
MR. YASKA replied that is correct. However, that footprint is the
same size as the core calving ground for the caribou herd. He said
scientists have shown that the caribou would probably have to move
and all indications are that during calving, pre-calving, and post-
calving, caribou are very skittish and very leery of human
activity. He felt they would be especially leery of the heavy
industrial activity such as what would be found in ANWR for
exploration and drilling.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Mr. Yaska if he had visited the Kuparuk oil
field.
MR. YASKA stated he had been at Prudhoe Bay, but not Kuparuk.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN suggested he try and be there during the
migratory cycle. He said while Prudhoe Bay does not lie within the
normal course of the calving cycle, the Kuparuk River does and he
felt it would be worthwhile to see the extent to which the industry
has gone to assist the caribou. He noted the caribou in that area
are far from skittish and added that the caribou have the right of
way. He stressed it is improper and subject to dismissal for
anyone to harass caribou if they cross the roads. He added that
when the caribou are calving, they are oblivious to anything around
them.
Number 128
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Mr. Yaska if he had mentioned that
the caribou herd does not always take the same path when migrating.
She said it will not be known whether or not the caribou will be
going into the 1002 area because they change their route so often.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN assured Representative Nicholia that fact had
been mentioned.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT acknowledged the comments made by Ms. Hannan.
He felt many of her comments were very relevant. He noted that she
has her constituency, and legislators have theirs. He mentioned he
represents over 15,000 people in a very condensed area who are in
favor of opening ANWR. He felt that was indicative of
acknowledging that the oil companies in the past have been very
responsible in oil exploration and production. If that were not
the case, he said he would probably have concerns about opening
ANWR and perhaps would not support the resolution. He stressed he
has been in the area, understands what is going on there and
therefore, supports the legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT made a MOTION to MOVE CSHJR 13 (O&G) out of
committee with accompanying zero fiscal note with INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA OBJECTED.
CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked for a roll call vote. Voting in favor of
CSHJR 13 (O&G) were Representatives Kott, Austerman, Williams,
Ogan, Barnes, and Green. Voting against the motion was
Representative Nicholia. The MOTION PASSED 6-1.
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